Fusion is the music of EGO

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December 27th, 2004, 01:21 PM
Gary Husband

Hmmm ...

Another one for Mr Dr Funkenstein,

"However, as "jazz" has failed to evolve in any creative meaningful way since the 70's, fusion has become nothing more than smooth jazz on steroids."

What a pointless, undeterminable, totally blinkered generalisation. I wonder what "automatically" qualifies certain music as "modern fusion" anyway for God's sake!? As far as electric music is concerned, it certainly ain't that way from where I stand anyway ... or a good deal of forward looking and creative people I associate with or individuals I hear, admire and respect. Sorry.

Yes, I remember the "John is more rhythm oriented. He plays right with you, on the beat" interview - read it when it came out years ago. It'd be pretty accurate, conceptually, to define John and Allan in a simple apples and oranges way. Secondly, and reflecting directly on their respective differences I have to say that I personally rate the kind of interplay that was going on between Allan and Tony (on the duet moments captured on "Million Dollar Legs" for example) as some of the most joyous, captivating and totally empathetic musical conversation between two people I ever heard in my whole life. And no, (thankfully!!!) it wasn't just yet another blues or soul derivative guitarist plugging away alongside one of the great drum virtuosos of our time with those two - it was entirely a unique, intellectual, fresh and thoroughly electrifying meeting of two enormously innovative individuals, to me. What WAS ALSO so cool about that band, was how those duet moments WERE usually underpinned by that relentless pulse of undoubtedly one of the strongest and grooviest soul bassists around, in Tony Newton. A completely different kind of band balance, and chemistry that's all ... certainly to the first band with John and Larry Young, clearly. Furthermore, as I reflect back on that somewhat "chatterbox" kind of "continual soloing in the ensemble" thing Tony loved to do so much, I think he also found in Allan's more overdriven and sustained guitar presence a perfect and fresh new foundation on which to unfold and manifest all that.
I think Tony and Allan rejoiced in playing together, personally.
If you don't hear it in the two albums, you surely have got to hear it in those electric bootlegs!
One guy from Bradford, Yorkshire, England up against Tony, a powerful soul kind of bassist and a keyboard man who blended so eloquently with Allan's harmonic approach while at the same time rocking so hard with the propulsive elastic groove of the whole band ... with Tony and Allan flying together on top of it all!
One of the GREAT fusion happenings of all time for me, that band. Some of those spontaneous hits between Tony and Allan, phew!

Fantastic music, still, to put on any morning for me.

I just wanted to sound back on two of your points.

Peace to all.

GH

P.S. According to what I heard, Allan, and the rest of the guys in the New Lifetime suffered from chronic mismanagement. Allan was for sure not fired, and did not leave, singularly. From what I could gather, everyone went their seperate ways having run completely out of money, on tour in the middle of nowhere. Allan pawned one of his favourite and beloved guitars to get home. I don't remember hearing anything about that band continuing with another guitarist. Could be wrong. It's the account I heard from the horse's mouth.
December 27th, 2004, 02:29 PM
r_navega

Quote:

Originally posted by BennyAndTheSkins:
When I think of Alan's music (and by extension Gary's) I am reminded of the tune "The Un-merry Go Round" off Metal Fatigue. Besides Gary's masterful solo (...) the middle, ballad-like portion of "Un-merry.." has always had a special sentimental value to me

Allan Holdsworth's solo on that tune ("Un-Merry Go Round") is the most beautiful guitar solo I've ever listened to. Allan is a real genius (and he can't even read music!).
December 27th, 2004, 03:57 PM
Riddim

Re this:

Alan Holdsworth's solo on that tune ("Un-Merry Go Round") is the most beautiful guitar solo I've ever listened to. Alan is a real genius (and he can't even read music!).

Bingo.

It doesn?t matter how much skills or vocabulary one has if one has no vision. That leads to wanking. IMHO, it?s all about communicating a vision one has about how things can be. If you have this vision and dig deeply, you?ll find a way to share it with others; hopefully they?ll enjoy it.

Alan, IMHO, clearly has vision in spades. He is someone who has taken what he has been given and maximized it. While some of us are more gifted that others, if we develop what we have to the best of our abilities, we will have something unique and hopefully of some beauty.

If we dig deeply and think for ourselves, based on the situations we find ourselves in, perhaps there will be less wanking and more meaningful, insightful and inspired dialog, musical and otherwise. There will also be greater appreciation for the effort and sacrifices made by those who pursue sharing their visions. It?s much easier to criticize someone else's design than it is to build a house of one?s own.

BTW, I very much liked Gary's observations on AH and TW. Right on the money.
December 27th, 2004, 04:49 PM
dr-funkenstein

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary Husband:
I was a little curious of the reference to Allan Holdsworth as Allan "Holdsworthless" in your opening mail though. Maybe a few too many Christmas brandy's and a slip of the fingers on the keypad I've been hoping.

Sincerely,

GH

i cant defend the name-calling. It was immature at best and was a lead-balloon attempt at humorous wordplay.
However, I feel compelled explain my feelings: I'll start with a quote from Tony in a Downbeat article from 1983 when asked about playing with AH & John M.
"John is more rhythm oriented. He plays right with you, on the beat. He'll play accents with you. Even when he's soloing, he'll drop back and play things that are in rhythm. Alan is less help. With Alan it's like he's standing somehwere and he's just playing, no matter what the rhythm is."
When Alan departed from the touring version of Tonys Lifetime group in 78 he was replaced with a much lesser known guitar player named Marlon Graves. Marlons style is based on a more "soulful" rock-n-roll kind of expression a-la Hendrix and Eddie Hazel. Marlons Guitar sound is rooted in a rock/blues tradition. This was Tonys choice to replace the virtuoso Alan H. From this comment and Tonys subsequent choice for a replacement, I have infered that the musical connection and communcation with Alan was not completely fullfilling for TW. Listening and watching AH recordings has left me with the idea that his mastery of the instrument may be unparalleled, but it overshadows a soulful approach. Additionaly, Alan has personaly vetoed several legitamit attempts to reissue unrealeased Tony material. As explained to me be a particpant in the process, Alans unwillingness to be involved (resulting in the deep 6ing of the projects) was based on a disdain for the re-issue process in general. He was the only involved party not to sign on in the end and it doesnt appear that he will become anymore willing to participate at any later date. I must admit that I respect ALL musicians contributions to creative expression, even those musicians who do not aesthetically appeal to me. Calling Alan a name was indefensable. I offer this critique as insight to MY feelings on AH.

[ December 27, 2004 01:03 AM: Message edited by: dr-funkenstein ]
December 27th, 2004, 05:14 PM
dr-funkenstein

Quote:

Originally posted by dr-funkenstein:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JosiahM:

You sir, are exactly what the thread starter must have been refearing too. Selective reading/hearing, irrationaly jumps of reason and the inabbility to adiquetly elicit an appropriate thoughtful response.

Message edited by: JosiahM ][/size][/color]

No, i wasnt in any way referring to that.

Nextly, KoB and Document are simlar in that the CDs are both silver. If improvisation is the ONLY factor in a comparison and contrast model than all music that has any improvisation should be thought of as "nearly identical."<hr /></blockquote>
December 27th, 2004, 05:57 PM
dr-funkenstein

sorry for the double post- moderator can delete last message. it was a spelling correction only.

as part of the discussion i have posted a new set of Tony Williams audio boots: Cleveland Ohio, Oct. 5 1976. TW-drums, Marlon Graves-gtr, Tony Newton-bass Allen Pasqua-kys. i think AH was only temporarily apart from the group at this time.

Jazz evolved from the black experience in America in the mid 20th century. Its underwent its most profound changes from the 30s to the 70s- ie: swing, cool, be-bop, avante-gaurd and fusion. (a generalization- but hey i am obviously prone to make a few). For the last 20+ years jazz, more or less, resembles itself and hasnt produced an innovation that has had a profound affect on music as a whole, the way it has in the past. IMHO jazz has been predominantly in preservation mode- ie: Wynton at Lincoln Center, BET Jazz, etc. As such, Jazz seems to have lessened its impact and its vitality.

Without a doubt musicians and technical achievment has contiued to evolve . . . at a particularly blistering rate lately!!!! But jazz as the hotbed of musical innovation (which it certainly was) doesnt seem to be the case anymore.
December 27th, 2004, 06:18 PM
Gary Husband

Again, I would say that your observations are entirely based on what you've been exposed to - what "you've" seen, only what "you've" heard and all that "you" might know about in this particular realm of music. I'm sorry but it's a summation based, necessarily, on ignorance. In fact, I find much about your attitude and comments about music pretty ignorance, and, (quite honestly) in my opinion just a load of bluster with no substance from a guy wanting to make an impression. Sorry.
December 27th, 2004, 06:20 PM
Derek DeFields

This could be stating the obvious, but perhaps if you don't want to read/discuss things about Vinnie and Weckl you should try going to a website that is NOT dedicated to them.

There are other drummers discussed here too btw. [img]wink.gif[/img]
December 27th, 2004, 07:00 PM
Shawn40

Hi Guys,

I hope that you had some fun during Christmas day and that you enjoyed your Chrismas presents too !!!

I just want say that if you look the homepage of this great website, you can see that this place is dedicated firstly to Vinnie Colaiuta, Dave Weckl and Steve Holmes, if you want to hear for another drummer you are in the wrong place...
Nobody forced you to come so...

But we do of course talking about all drummer/musicians, and various artists coming from all over the world !!!

Someguys miss some topics and comes with a big mouth like : "Yeah you don't speak about him, you speak too much about him..."
I'm almost sure that all the good and bad drummer from the all world has been mentioned here once so don't talk if you don't know !!!
(It works too in music with "don't play it if you don't know do it...")

Anyway, I say that, it's not my website of course, it's just my thought...
I like hang here firstly because I'm a Vinnie's fan, but also I have discovered a lot of "new" drum killer, the guys are sharing a lot of VERY GOOD STUFF and some nice guys are hanging there too (Dazz', Matricks, Daniel, Juan Expo, Randy...).

This site is a GOLD MINE !!!
There is some good moderators in HOD but every HODer must take care of this site like if it's "his" website.

Peace.
December 27th, 2004, 07:35 PM
Klemme

Quote:

Originally posted by JDouglee:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Klemme:

And all those altered chords man.. They're not used so much anymore.

[img]graemlins/wonder.gif[/img] <hr /></blockquote>Hmmm Yeah, when i read it again, it sounds a little wierd. i Goof too much when i post, sorry for that JDouglee [img]smile.gif[/img]

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